Tuesday, September 18, 2012

Dating In Your Late 20s Sucks - Part 3

I've already gone on about this topic in the past in Dating In Your Late 20s Sucks Part 1 and Part 2.

I'm continually surprised that people continue to comment on those posts and of all my historical posts, they continue to get the most regular hits.

I kind of want to start this out by going over some of the comments on these posts because they reinforce many of the things I'm talking about.

Comment #1:
Well, are you expecting men to be chivalrous? That is a common problem when women reach their late 20's. Men in their late 20's are fed up with the demands of chivalry.

Ask men out, pay for their meals. Heck, go dutch on dates. Be independent.

Finally, it might be you. Ever think about that? Perhaps you have standards that are too high, or a personality that is off the grid. There is nothing wrong with being yourself, but please understand that this could all be your problem.

I am a man who earns a low income, does not have a college degree and has an anti-social personality, so I know that my dating woes are mostly my fault. Unlike you, I don't have random women approaching me. Enjoy being a woman. It will work in your favor.

Comment #2:
Have you noticed when a man is single the problem is with him? People say, “You need to get out more, or you need to improve your game and learn how to talk to women.”

But when a woman is single its like, “Ahh well…there’s no decent men left out there.” If a man said that about women he’d be branded a sexist.

Comment #3:
I'm a 30 year old single man and I don't date women over the age of 25 because of articles like this. Too many bad experiences with picky, self-centered and downright mean women.

Comment #4: 
Sorry, but it sounds like you are the problem. Blaming men will only work for so long.

Comment #5:
27 year old grad student here. Single, attractive, very smart, musically talented, passionate, and also tired of coming home from less than memorable evenings and asking myself "isn't there more than this?" Hit me up :)

Comment #6: 
I am a 28 yo single guy.

1) They want to be single.
---- Well, I wanted to be single when I was 24-25. not anymore-------

2) They have baggage or presume that you do.
---no baggage for me------------

3) They're living the party life while they cling desperately to their beer drinking youth.

4) They're jerks, dicks, douche bags, pricks or psychos.

5) They've got mom issues, ex-girlfriend issues, ex-wife issues and/or women issues in general.
----- check. i am way too attached to my Mom ------------

6) They're workaholics.
----- Check. I work 15+ hours per day----------

7) They're gay.
------ Nope -----------

8) They're already your ex-boyfriend.
------- No ---------

9) They're the mythical "nice guy" who you hear exists but you never actually meet because he never attempts to talk to you.
------ Yeah. fits my profile ---------------

Ok. Now if you will notice, all of these comments are by men.  And all of them are posted Annonymously.  Even the guy who told me to hit him up ;)  Do I detect a theme here?  It's really easy to judge a woman you've never met isn't it.  I mean according to most of these guys, I'm probably a bitch, I expect too much, my standards are too high,  I'm being unfair to men and I have baggage that men are sick of dealing with.  That about sums it up?  

Ironically, these men have done nothing more than reinforce most of what I've said in my previous posts.  I'm not talking about them specifically and yet they feel they know enough about me to be judgemental.  I admit when I am making generalizations and all of the men and situations I talk about are real men that I have gone on dates with. I'm sure they have their own opinions about me but they are entitiled to them because they've actually met me.  

Some jerk who likes to hide behind the anonymity of the internet has no right to make judgements on my character or make presumptions about me.  

Gotta love the last guy though.  He totally owns up to his shit, which is more than most guys can claim.  

Recently I've been so busy with work that I haven't been on any dates.  What has come to my attention is that I actually know a lot of people that are currently on or have used online dating.  A friend of mine met her current love online and jokes that she "bought her boyfriend on the internet".  A few other friends are meeting tons of guys it seems, but none are panning out to be anything resembling an actual relationship.  The problem I see with online dating is that people, especially men seem to have forgotten their manners.  

Men online are either attracted to me because I have tattoos and piercings, are attracted to me because I'm an educated well read woman, or are attracted to me because of my rack.  Sadly, these men seem to have a preference for one thing or the other.  The guy that likes my tongue ring, very rarely cares about my hobbies and the well read guy with a job usually balks when they hear the words body art.  Now these are gross generalizations but they are generalizations based on my actual experiences so I'm entitled to them.  

I know aspects of my personality contradict other aspects.  I know that some of my likes and dislikes will either attract or repel certain men. I'm OK with that.  But don't be rude, don't be judgmental and above all else, don't start a conversation by asking me to see a picture of my tits.  It ain't gonna happen sweetie. 




  1. I mean, to expect someone to be chivalrous, respectful and mature are ridiculous things to ask for. How dare you want someone to respect you! :)

    Everyone has their own issues AND BAGGAGE (no matter what that dude says) they bring into relationships but no way should you have to lower your standards when it comes to things like COMMON COURTESY. *Spoiler: I'm not going to want to bone you if you won't take me out from time to time and won't like open a door for me, and if you talk to my chest the whole time (they can't talk back and they have names BTW). That's going to get old really quickly.

    Dating is tough on both sides because, not only are there a lot of creeps out there, there's also a lot of really horrible girls out there, too. I know girls who use dating sites as a way to get a nice, free meal. I know it's tough but guys: if you want to find a nice girl, BE NICE and BE RESPECTFUL - always. Same goes for females. And females aren't being disrespectful when they won't show you their ta-tas, so don't write them off as being bitches - even when they remark about what a creep you are for requesting pics of you. Assume you've crossed a line and maybe not be such an idiot the next time around.

    To take this a step further: finding female friends in my 20's has been really really difficult for me. I stayed away from the whole dating thing because I was running into the same issues as you and, fine, maybe it was me but I refuse (still do) to accept that guys are just going to do the bare minimum to get by in a relationship but that's "just how guys are". No thanks. Rather be alone.

    It's sad because it's like the good girls and the good guys, somehow keep missing each other and continue dating all the wrong people and become jaded after time. I wish there was a way in incapsulate the good from the bad and you can just date in your own dating pool.

    1. Respect is huge. A lot of other things can be addressed or ignored. But a guy who is rude or disrespectful is something else entirely.

      I'll be the first one to say that a lot of the women I know, I wouldn't date if I was a guy. They're high maintenance and gossip or are too focused on what they want. Women use men and can be just as superficial. That's why it kills me when I see a nice guy who has a girlfriend who treats him like crap. We all have our flaws but you're right. Why can't the nice people seem to find each other?

      I'm with you on the girlfriends as well. It's the same as meeting men. I find I don't meet new people at all. I don't meet people at work, my small circle of friends hasn't really changed at all and other than the gym, the grocery store or just out and about, where would I even encounter new people.

    2. I'm having a horrible time making new girlfriends too. So many of my friends are married or in committed relationships now that I find myself sitting alone so often. A while ago I decided I wanted to diversify my friendships and it was SO hard. Everyone seems to already have plenty of friends, or is too afraid to branch out for new friends. This leaves me with slim pickings as everyone has walls built. Most girls I would meet out and about see me as competition for guys(please, an overweight socially awkward girl... you've got nothing to fear) and don't want to have a conversation.

    3. I've always felt odd being the "new girl" in the group. Close groups of friends have history and inside jokes. I always feel like I'm the only one who doesn't get it.

    4. I actually feel like I'm socially awkward now when I meet new females because I feel like they're judging me (I'm very thin because I have weird genes, ok!?! I'm also very caustic and many people don't get that). Perhaps I'm paranoid but I don't know, I feel like I'm probably right here. If I meet a guy friend's girlfriend, I feel like she automatically hates me because, 9 times out of 10, I find out later they're uncomfortable with their friendship with me. I don't think it's personal; I just think females have issues with other females.

      A lot of girls I know I would NEVER date and I would never set up with any of my guy friends (and vice versa).

      I don't know why I have such a difficult time but I find myself in the same situation where it seems like other girls aren't looking for any more friends and I just give up.

    5. Ash, the comment "That's why it kills me when I see a nice guy who has a girlfriend who treats him like crap" rings so true! The girls who demand expensive dinners, presents, whine when they don't get their way - just befuddle me. I wouldn't dream of treating anyone, friend or romantic partner, that way. Perhaps men DO marry bitches, but why don't they marry sweet (but sassy!) girls who'd rather have a man treat her kindly than buy her stuff?

  2. One of my best friends is a dude and we always have the argument of who's at fault in the dating world. He swears it's women, I swear it's all of us.

    I think that by the time we cross 25 we all forget that there's supposed to be an equal give and take because we're all built up to be so independent we forget what it's like to have a partner to work with. Plus, we've all been through enough hurting others and being hurt by others that we DO tend to become jaded. ICK!

    Recently I started dating someone and after almost a month I'm still hiding behind a huuuge intimacy barrier waiting for the other shoe to drop. He's a great guy (who I've actually known since high school), but there's GOTTA be something I don't know. I even dropped one of my "he can't be's" by dating someone who is divorced and already has a kid, but I'm still terrified that very soon something is going to happen and it's all going to go away.

    Goddamn I hate this dating thing!

    1. Thankfully one of my close male friends agrees with me that sometimes men see boobs and their brains and manners go flying out the window.

      Don't wait for the other shoe to hit, hun. If it does, it does and you will survive and move on.

      For me, I don't focus so much on what there is about him that I don't know, but I find I'm guilty of presuming he's going to hurt me or betray me as if it is inevitable. Sadly that's been trained into me from experience of my serious relationships ending badly and painfully.

      I'm with ya hun. I'm not even really dating. I'm stuck in a 2-dates it's over rut and that's just SUPER FUN.

    2. Exactly! It's BOTH! Men and women can BOTH be awful. I do the same thing with waiting for the other shoe to drop but have only recently gotten better with this. If it ends, you'll figure it out. Enjoy it now if he makes you happy!

  3. All I have to say here is I CONCUR. The hardest part of all of this is finding someone who fits ALL the bills, and not just one. I don't want part of a man, I want a whole being, and ANONYMOUS 1-1000 can argue all they want, but that is very, very difficult to find.

    1. By now in my life, I know what I want out of a relationship, what I'm willing to negotiate and what I will not accept. Does that make me picky? Maybe. But I'd rather be alone than in the hell that was my previous relationships.

    2. Yep. He doesn't have it and you KNOW you NEED it, onto the next. Life's too short.

    3. Yup. It's not even like the things I won't negotiate on are overly complicated. Is it a bad thing to ask that you don't bullshit or cheat on me?

    4. Nope. I make that pretty clear from the get-go. If this happens, it's over. Plan accordingly.

  4. I spent the better part of my twenties doing the online dating thing, only to meet my person in real life (and stalk him for 3 months before he asked me out)...

    What I learned: The good guys don't chase girls. Then they complain and cry about how the nice girls don't want nice guys. The problem is that the bad guys chase the nice girls, and the nice girls like to be chased. And caught. But the catching is not fun for the bad boys, so they leave. And make the nice girls cry. Stupid. Vicious. Circle.

    1. I spent my late teens through my mid twenties in bad relationship after bad relationship.

      You pretty much summed it up. Nice girls are doomed to either cry over bad boys or feel ignored by the good guys. Men suck.

    2. Uh... exactly, Chrissy. EXACTLY. You're so right. The nice guys don't chase girls. So right.

  5. Ok...guy mascot (I like that one Ash) wading into some potentially treachous waters...bear with me, this could be a few paragraphs (and be gentle).

    I moved from SW Ontario (London) to an hour east of Toronto when I was 25. I had my CA designation, owned my own car, owned my own house, in other words kind of had my shit together. I was living in a small town where I knew a few people from university, but they were all coupled already. There were a few single girls around, but I wasn't interested in dating any of them. I was happy being by myself.

    I am introverted, thoughful, educated, professional, and was terrified of getting hurt, so I stayed single. So terrified that I really only spoke to girls that were in relationships so I didn't have to worry about getting hurt.

    I was working at a small accounting office and befriend the receptionist (I know, cliche, you don't have to tell me) who had three kids. She teases me about our first "date". We were working late on April 30 trying to get tax returns efiled and the Revenue Canada server crashed. So we went to a local pub for something to eat. The NHL playoffs were in full swing so I was watching the TV while carrying on a conversation at the same time as I was eating my burger with a knife and fork (don't judge, it was messy). I thought we were just having dinner, but she tells me that when she saw me eat with manners and only casually watch the game, she was hooked. Me? Dumb guy not knowing anything was going on.

    Fast forward a few months. She had left her hsuband (it wasn't me, she was leaving before she met me) and we continued to hang out (I thought) and I helped with kids and bonded with them. One night we were at the bar for burgers again and she asked when I was going to make a move...she wanted to have sex. Um, pardon??? Dumb guy not knowing anything was going on.

    My point is...there are lots of guys out there that do make great partners (and girls too), but they may not realize it. I certainly didn't think any female would want to spend time with me, but I was wrong. That nice guy (or girl) who you think may be playing hard to get, may truly not realize how you feel or know how to react.

    I don't think nice girls (or guys for that matter) are doomed and I don't think I suck...I know I was way to terrified to even think about a relationship until it snuck up on me. I didn't even realize I was in a relationship until she (wife now for 12 years) told me to smarten up and have a look around. Then it dawned on me...holy crap I have a girlfriend and three kids. We've been together since then and this is the only relationship I've had.

    Hope that makes sense.

    Like I wrote to Bluemoon the other day...the kind of guys Chrissy describes are out there...I play hockey with lots of them and work with some of them. If I could warn you about them I would...they give the rest of us a terrible rap. They're jerks. Period. And won't change. Ever. And almost enjoy leaving messes behind...they laugh about it in the dressing rooms. I've got into a few fights with asses like that over the years cause of their attitudes. They suck. Period.

    1. Aww Elliott. I'm officially dubbing you the Man-scott. Sounds catchy right? We'll get you a t-shirt.

      You get total points overall. Most guys, especially younger guys, wouldn't even make the effort to befriend an older woman with children. Most would in fact run screaming. Especially when they find out she's going through a divorce or is recently divorced. Can we say emotional baggage?

      I'm guilty of dating totally unsuitable men. I don't do the whole "oh I can change him" but I try to love people the way they are and are sometimes blinded by their faults and the faults in the relationship because I WANT it to work. Hence me spending 5 years in a relationship with a man that not only demeaned my intelligence but made me feel ashamed of it. Like being an educated woman was a BAD thing. What century are we in? We're talking traditional European background, cop, ultra conservative the whole 9 yards. Why he ever even asked me, the tattooed book nerd out on a date I will never understand.

      I'm also guilty of not initiating conversation with strangers, especially men. I figure if they wanted to talk to me, they would approach. But I know, they may be thinking the exact same thing and relying on them to instigate the conversation isn't fair.

      It totally makes sense and I'm so happy for you and your wife. We would all be so lucky to find a connection like that.

      Men can be asses but the flip side is that there are women out there that can be just as cruel and hurtful. We talk about womens equality but there are women out there that will date a guy just because of how he looks or how much money he makes. I wish I didn't know women my age that openly look for men that are older who have cash, someone to look after them so they don't have to work. It drives me nuts and I have such little respect for them. All in all, people suck or are capable of really shitty things and it's unfortunate because it's usually the nice souls that get caught in the crossfire.

    2. Cool...my very own nick name and t-shirt! Looking forward to it.

      Yeah, the divorce and custody battles weren't fun. Like I said, I didn't really realize I was in a relationship and if she had any baggage that would have impacted our initial friendship. She didn't really have any baggage...and the little baggage she had we had talked through when I thought we were friends. Again, I missed that one too.

      And I hear you about the wanting it to work...I can't relate, but I understand...I've seen it.

      It's worked out for us...we have three great kids...two in are university, Waterloo and Guelph, and third was just awarded second highest average for Gr 10. We've done something right, even after what the kids went through.

      Off to hockey to listen to some of those arseholes.

    3. Divorce is crappy enough without kids involved but you are a jem for toughing it out with her.

      See? Why can't we just clone you so we can all have a nice guy? I request the iElliott 2.0.

      Your kids sound awesome and grounded too.

      If you ever play a team from Whitby that has a cop on it, feel free to shoot a puck at his head because it's probably the spawn of satan himself.

    4. Thanks Ash...appreciate the compliments.

      Actually, we do play in a tourney every year in Oshawa and there are a couple of teams from Whitby. But we play in the old fart level, aka over 35, so I'm sure if he would be in the same division. And there is a tourney down here during the March break that has a couple of teams from Whitby. I'll keep by eye out and my stick sharp...hehehe.

      And I'm on a new team this year, and much to my delight, all the guys seem very decent. Which is a nice change. But holy hell, how did I get so out of shape in four months?

    5. He may play in the old farts league. I'm 28 so he'd be 32 at this point. Who knows. Just keep in mind, Whitby....cop. If he looks like an asshole, go for his nuts! I'm kidding of course ;)

      I'm glad you've got decent guys this year. I always feel really uncomfortable being surrounded by bitchy catty women and their gossip because I don't participate. I don't even want to hear it. So I imagine it's similar for you.

    6. Elliott: I think I may be dating the 30 year old version of you! haha! I love my bf but he's bit, shall we say, CLUELESS when it comes to certain things involving relationships. I felt like I had to chase him around a little and drop totally obvious hints before he actually asked me out. I'd prefer it that way because I know he's not running around after all sorts of other girls while we're dating - otherwise, he's in big big trouble!

    7. I think we'd all rather date the slightly clueless but sweet guys. If anything I imagine there would be less drama involved. See, I just need to find a nice little book nerd of my own. One that preferably isn't deathly allergic to my cat.

    8. Clueless is what I am, no doubt about it. I chalk it up to being single until I was 27ish (like no female contact before that) and not learning the nuiances younger. The only drama we have is when I forgot something...she's long since stopped getting worked up if I don't react correctly in her mind...now she just tells me. My wife still laughs at me when she has to explicitly ask something, but it works for us.

      Proud nerd is me...although I very athletic too (hockey, golf, skiing, softball). I'm such a nerd that right now on my bedside table is an accounting theory book and the tax act...how's that for light reading???

      As for the cat allergy...I get used to my cats, but others can bother me a bit. I know, weird.

    9. Let's have a nerd-off ;)

      I've embraced my inner nerd. I'm currently reading a book on the Magna Carta.

      I find I react to some cats and dogs if either the owner's house isn't that clean or the animal itself isn't groomed properly.

    10. Not sure I can beat the Magna Carta...

      But, the family was in DC in August for a week (the "kids" are 19, 17, 15) and all five of us were completely captivated for 5 days of touring the museums and seeing the sights...that has to say something. Makes me wish there was more than the ROM and Science Center in TO.

    11. I actually saw the Magna Carta when I was in England. At a random church. I didn't even know it was there and them BOOM.....Magna Carta. I squealed. It was shameful.

      I went to DC a few years ago and the monuments and everything are pretty cool. Loved the Smithsonian.

      Toronto's not that bad, when I have friends visit that haven't been here they're impressed by the ROM, the AGO and stuff like that. The fact that I can pratically see Castle Loma from my apartment is also kinda cool. I think we're just desesitized by it all. I mean the CN Tower is nothing to us, it's just something I use to mark which direction is south when I get off the subway.

    12. Agreed, TO is very nice. We love visiting, but we love leaving to go back to our tiny little village. We go to the ROM, AGM, and Science Center every couple of years, and always enjoy the visits.

      Believe it or not, I have never been up the CN Tower. My sister-in-law, who lives in Omaha, NB has been up the Tower three or four times.

      We have not been to Casa Loma in years, but last time we were there, it was beautiful.

      The one great thing about the Smithsonian museums, is the cost of $0. And we loved each and every one we went to. It would be nice if TO had more free attractions.

      We go to quite a few concerts in TO and always have a great time. Where it is the ACC, SkyDome, or the Amphitheatre, the shows are always great.

    13. Everything in TO. Is too expensive. The gardens at Castle Loma are fantastic. I love going in he summer.

      The CN Tower is cool but too expensive. I went once with my ex and he pushed me onto he horrible glass floor and I almost had a heart attack. I hate heights.

    14. I have a Bathroom Reader calendar on my desk (the 365 day style with a random fact per day) and today's was that the word nerd was coined by Dr. Suess in 1950...what a coincidence considering one of the questions from the webaward was your favourite Dr Suess book. Actually, truth be told, I have three of the calendars on my desk...Dilbert (one of my favourite comics along with Calvin and Hobbes, Bloom County, Far Side, and Herman) and a golf course one with pictures that make wish I was independently wealth.

      And...you won't believe this, but I have a pair of lounging pants with One Fish, Two Fish on them (Walmart special).

    15. LOL that is awesome. Love Dilbert, I have this as the wallpaper of my computer at work.

      One Fish, Two Fish is awesome. So much better than the greatly overrated Green Eggs and Ham.

    16. LMAO. That was a great one. I love Dilbert.

      Sadly, the 2012 calendar I have has way too many panels that are excatly our office. A co-worker and I have a good laugh at least once a week because the cartoons are exactly where we work.

      If I follow your blog by email, I assume you get my email address? If you respond back I can send along the funnier ones if you want.

    17. That's funny. This made the rounds at work because it is soooo accurate for our industry. http://vimeo.com/41150734

      Yup if you follow by email it will show up in my admin stats. Once you sign up the confirmation will possibly end up in your junk mail, just confirm it and you'll get my posts that way. I'll email you a bunch of funny stuff I have too.

    18. Email subscription is done...I'll check the video after lunch, off to a meeting.

      Sorry, my email might be one of the world's longest...